The question we tried to answer: "On a situation-by-situation basis, how can we improve the lives of children who are being parented traditionally (or worse)?"
To read the notes from the Good Vibrations chat, go here. The coping strategies suggested by the participants at LIFE is Good follow.
INTERVENING IN VIOLENT MOMENTS
- If it's safe, get close and look horrified. Be an obvious witness.
- If getting close is not safe, pre-dial your cellphone to 911 and inform the violent one that you have done so.
- Do something surprising or silly or distracting. Break the tension. Shake things up. Carry a little bottle of bubbles in your purse.
- In a timeout situation, act as if the timeout is a fun game and join in.
- Create a space for an overwhelmed child to express himself.
- Empathize with the parent.
- Offer to help.
- Pretend to be new to a peaceful parenting method—"Oh, I just found this technique that really helps"—and share it with the parent.
- Talk to the kid to talk to the parent. Amplify the kid's perspective. "Waiting in line is really hard, isn't it?" "Oh, look at all the candy. Don't you wish we could buy all of it?"
- Help the child find a solution. Usually the child will have to give in to the parent's demands, but you can show her that you understand the conflict. Amplify the parent's perspective—"I think your mom really wants to leave now"—and show that you understand the child's perspective, too—"but you're not ready to leave yet, are you?"
- Act oblivious to the tension of the moment. "What a cute little guy!"
- Counter negative messages by offering additonal perspectives.
(airplanes, lines, kids trapped in strollers)
- Be playful. Give the child clear permission to play so that both parent and child know it's okay.
- Bubbles (as mentioned above).
- Pipe cleaners, stickers, little toys.
- Goodie bags (keep one in purse, replace as needed).
- Ask your own kids to be emissaries. Other parents don't feel as threatened by kids, and kids tend to be fascinated by other kids.
- Any of the above.
- Model peaceful parenting every chance you get.
- Spanking is NOT allowed in your home. Don't be afraid to say so.
25 comments:
I also was SO impressed with the mom who mentioned carrying a little care package for mom, with the poem, and did she use a website?
I think that was Lynelle, and I thought it was the little bag for the child. Maybe I misunderstood, but I really like the idea of there being a resource or two in there for Mom, too!
Here's an update from Lynelle:
"the bags have a poem about motherhood and/or parenting (i switch it now and then) and some inexpensive trinkets for the mom and for the kids.
something the kids can play with immediately, and something the mom might think about later.
"i usually carry a few with me, but i'm at the point of needing to replenish my supply....
"it can really be ANYthing though. something to distract... whatever you have around that's little and bag-able!"
Thanks for this post Ronnie. I *really* like it. :-D
Good post. My family and I were in eating dinner out tonite and encountered a mom and dad who were SO disrespectful to their naturally energetic kids. The mom was chastising them constantly, and then on her cell phone and asked the children "Can't you see I'm on the phone! Leave me alone." We just didn't know what to do. I"m not sure any of this would've helped as she was sitting at her own table in her own space. But our family was able to discuss our feelings on respectful parenting if nothing else!!~M
Maria, the little care package might have helped - something for the kids to DO while she yacked.
I have to admit to being gobsmacked on reading this blog, especially the comment from maria about a mother chastising her 'naturally energetic children'. To other people, those 'naturally energetic' kids are invariably disruptive and annoying. There is a time and place for freedom and energy - and it is not in a public place where other people can be disturbed. And, also, when someone is on the phone, it is good manners not to interrupt them!
While I can understand your desire to help children in abusive or angry situations, it is incorrect to make out that traditional parenting is characterised by such behaviours. Traditional parenting is about taking the responsibility for raising children well with firm boundaries, instead of letting children rule the roost. It is not about anger, which is often a sign of modern parenting because parents today are so frustrated by their children's disrespectful behaviour.
Hi Edge. I can understand your surprise because my initial reaction to descriptions of the parenting I promote on this blog was similar. All I can tell you is that living it is very different from hearing about it. Our kids are the farthest thing from disrespectful, and the proof is in the pudding in that our teens and grown kids are AMAZING and fun, and (the big test) they actually like spending time with Mom and Dad.
It is such a different world that it is really hard to comprehend from the sidelines. If you would like to step onto the field, here are some things to start with:
- Say "Yes" more. Lots more!
- Put fun first more. Lots more!
- In every situation where you would normally attempt to restrict, control, or just rein in your kid, consider your child's perspective. Is the place where you are too loud? Too quiet? Is the activity you're participating in too much for his/her current abilities? Is s/he tired, hungry, lonely, sad, frustrated, disappointed, angry, in a cuddly mood, in a don't-touch-me mood, excited about what comes next, fearful about what comes next, etc. Notice how your child's needs *appear* to conflict with your own, and then find a way to meet *both* your needs. It is possible 99 times out of 100!
I hope you'll keep reading. I highly recommend these resources:
Joyfully Rejoycing
Parenting a Free Child
I've been a waitress at the Old Faithful Inn, in Yellowstone. It's an extremely busy restaurant, in season, and I saw a very large cross-section of humanity during my years there.
I have seen far more "bad behavior" from inebriated or rude adults than I ever have from children -and, when children are being a bit "too" naturally energetic, it was invariably because their parents were treating them as inconvenient add-ons to life. They ordered the kids to be calm, while they ignored them to talk with other adults, or on the phone, or drink, or...
The parents who had children most would consider "well-behaved" invariably had a different sort of interaction with their parents. They spoke to the children as people, enjoyed that I am inclined to do the same with children. One lovely homeschooling family spent their entire meal planning, on paper and together, ideas for the geyser their daughter wanted to make when they returned home.
I think, Edge, that you are stuck in a place of seeing childrens' emotions and needs and thoughts as less valid or worthy of fulfilling than those held by adults. This creates a sense of lack in the child, because each child is a whole, feeling person, instinctively programmed to do everything possible to get their needs met.
By seeing my children as complete and worthy people *right now*, by taking their needs seriously, by giving to them generously of myself, I am filling their emotional needs, and they aren't in a place of needing to take desperate measures to get their needs for affection, attention, or energy release met.
Happy children whose needs are met have very little reason to behave in ways that are particularly troublesome. If they do make a mistake, it is generally then an issue of not being able to do better, or not knowing how to do better.
In the case of any public or private place, if there is a possibility of an adult behaving poorly (berating the server; growling at others in a checkout line; stealing or lying anywhere, screaming at the coach or referee at a child's sporting event, belittling the child themself, or minimizing their desires and needs), why are children expected to do better?
Children learn how to deal with life based upon how those around them deal with it. If the adults are requiring their children to behave in an unnatural way, that only adds to whatever other stress the child is feeling already.
And, really, how would you feel if someone required you to go out to eat with them, then sat there talking on the phone, leaving you restless, bored, and trapped, then, when you asked a question, barked at you to leave them alone?
Children aren't living dolls we can shape by force. They are, each of them, a unique being in the world. And each deserves to be treated with the dignity of an individual.
I firmly believe that, if each of *us* had been treated this way, there would be no need at all to debate this.
Thanks for your considered responses. It is great that you manage to make such a system work but, frankly, I think you are the exception, not the norm.
Shannon, you point out that children learn to deal with life based on how those around them deal with it. I totally agree - I expect adults to behave with considerateness, courtesy, manners in public and I expect the same from children. Children are not born with an innate sense of courtesy and manners; they learn it from their parents. It is my job to teach them how to behave in public. If you use distraction, instead, or excuse them because of other adults' bad behaviour, then they don't learn anything.
I have two fairly energetic children and am also one of the people who is easily irritated by kids being "over the top" in public and, like Shannon, I found in my years working retail that those kids who were most often problematic were being ignored by their parents - some in a "let them run wild" sort of way, but far more often in a "leave me alone I'm doing some important grown-up thing right now" sort of way.
I found parenting energetic kids meant that *I* the parent, had to be more conscious of people and space, so that I could help my kids move through the world gracefully *and* joyfully. While I can certainly commiserate with parents who haven't had the opportunities to learn the skills I have learned, I have a lot of sympathy for the kids, too. Its Not their fault that they have way too much energy and curiosity for pedantic adult convenience - and gosh what a gift to parent and child, both, to have someone else able to step in and help out in a stressful moment, to distract or entertain my busy, active young friends when I've miscalculated my own energy reserves. I'm so glad to see ideas and resources being offered to other parents who would like to do more than shake their heads and cluck disdainfully when a mom isn't up to the challenges of the moment.
"If you use distraction, instead, or excuse them because of other adults' bad behaviour, then they don't learn anything."
Words and rules are not the only (and certainly not the best) way to help kids learn social mores. Our own behavior is a far more effective teacher. We model kindness, understanding, politeness, quieter voices in certain places, more restrained motions in certain places, etc. And yes, we talk. Anne Ohman (another amazing resource for you) talks about "briefing and debriefing" -- the thousands of small conversations we have with our kids before, during, and after to help them learn the ropes.
But none of that requires rules or yelling or insisting that our kids do something a certain way. None of that precludes treating the needs of our children as valid and worthy of our consideration.
As for distraction... If a child is restless or noisy because she is bored, distraction is a fabulous solution! It takes her boredom seriously *and* it stops behaviors that might be distressing to the general public. When distraction is accompanied by understanding and acknowledgement of the child's experience -- "I know you're bored. We'll leave as soon as we can. Do you want to draw pictures?" -- well, those moments that can be so stressful become moments of connection and warmth instead of conflict.
When those moments of connection are multiplied over all the days of a childhood, it's life-transforming, for both parent and child.
If the goal is to have happy respected and respectful children, there is really only ONE way to achieve that. That way is to BE happy and respectful TO your children.
Lots of parents tell their kids what to do in stressful situations. It's all in the details. Which kids listen? Which kids do what they are told to do?
In my experience, the kids that listen are the ones that are routinely listened TO and the kids who actually DO what their parents ask of them are the ones whose parents have gladly done for them.
I have on many occasions sat in the corner of a grocery store to hug and love and calm my screaming child. Most parents tell their kids to shut up, ignore their child's cues and don't listen when their child is clearly upset and communicating in the only way they know how. It works the same with with loud and rowdy kids in locations where they shouldn't be loud and rowdy.
My personal opinion is that our culture in general is less than tolerant of very normal childhood behaviors. We can accept that or work to change that. Telling children to shush and shaming their enthusiastic and sometimes wild behavior seems harsh when there are plenty of better ways to connect with and help children be calmer and still maintain their happy child energy.
Teaching isn't always the same as shaming, but the general attitude behind teaching is that one person knows better than the other and needs to instill those ideas into the one being taught. When combined with bigger, stronger, more powerful, it can very much feel like shaming.
What Ronnie does and what many parents here have found that works is to completely eliminate that paradigm and work as parent/child partner team. Within that, there isn't a need to teach lessons on behavior. Parent and child work together in various circumstances to find respectable workable solutions.
And sometimes kids will STILL be rowdy or loud or screaming or running or doing whatever offending behavior they might possibly do. Just like no adult human is perfect in their behavior in all situations, neither are children.
You are all very passionate about your beliefs and I respect that. What I don't understand is why you have such a negative opinion of traditional parenting. Just because we believe in firm boundaries doesn't mean our way of parenting is cruel or demeaning to children. I am just as passionate about parenting and my children's welfare as you but I also believe that children benefit from realising that they are not the centre of the universe. They are part of a family, first and foremost, and part of a community and society secondly, and therefore need to respect the needs and wishes of the other people in the family and community as well. I do not scream at my children or shame them and I do not understand why you would assume that I do, just because I am a traditionalist. I think by teaching them that there are rules of behaviour, that I am preparing them for the outside world where people will not be as forgiving of their antics as their doting mothers are.
living respectfully has always been a priority in our lives. i expected to be respectful and teach our kids how to also live respectfully. what i did not expect was that my kids would teach me new definitions, heights, directions, and ideas about what respectful is and how it looks. my ideas, plans and perceptions about parenting changed when we had our son, and then changed exponentially when our very-intense daughter joined our lives. for me, it was like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlRK1vqcuvg
and for me, the new-vision crystallized in one exact moment. but the background matters: it took me almost four years to truly appreciate Jamie. Jamie cried a lot for no reason we could ever find. Jamie didn’t like hiking, biking, being in the car, resting in the garden, and so many other things that we enjoyed. Sean seemed to blend right into our life; Jamie seemed to END our life. She was sensitive to sock seams, fabric, hair on her back, how her bows were tied, if her curtains were crooked, which way we cut her sandwich, how her animals are placed on her bed…. it was inconceivable to us how she could be so anal about so many inconsequential things. it was small battle after small battle with us slowly choosing our battles more carefully, yet still…battles.
and then… we went bike riding and I saw Jamie and her world clearly for the first time… she wanted a new pink Barbie bike, but since that wasn’t in the budget, we let her choose a horn, a basket, and some shiny pink streamers to make her brother’s bike hers. and the streamers changed my world….
We went to a small island closeby with small paved paths and dirt paths and rivers, wildflowers, blackberries and apple trees. My husband and son rode ahead; I followed behind Jamie. she was going slowly and I thought it was because she wasn’t used to Sean’s bike. She was bumping into trees and riding off the paths and almost tipping over. I noticed she kept looking down and I told her to stop looking at her feet – to look in front of her – so she wouldn’t keep driving into the trees. After several tree-crashes and more reminders, Jamie explained it – she told me that she HAD to keep looking down because the ‘shadows are soooo beautiful’. And sure enough, the pink foil streamers were making very beautiful, shimmery shadows. I cried right there…because I felt like I FINALLY understood Jamie.
Most people have to remind themselves to stop and smell the flowers. At that moment, I suddenly realized that Jamie’s life IS the flowers. For Jamie, watching the beautiful shadows is worth a few tree crashes (although the world will hear it when she gets hurt). When Jamie crosses the street, she’s looking down to admire the shiny crystals in the asphalt. Jamie points out the sunset EVERY day, she notices every leaf changing color, she gleefully shows me EVERY flower that blooms, she delights in each new raspberry and tomato we grow and each cute spider or ladybug living in our garden. Jamie sees EVERY detail that people get too busy to notice. And being home with her has given me the time and the gift to learn to do that again. while I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to let her cross a street or ride a bike on her own…. I can’t help but thank her for the gift she’s given me… the gift I took sooo long to ‘get’. The priceless gift of wonder and beauty and time and imagination and magic and JAMIE!
On that day, Jamie and her shimmering-in-the-sunshine streamers taught me to see that my "inconsequential" isn't hers; that respect goes two ways; that her priorities also matter; and that it may be a better plan for me to teach her how to honor, take care of, and fix the things that matter to her, instead of telling her why they shouldn't matter. those streamers changed our relationship, her life, my world.
Edge--I don't want to speak for anyone, but I believe that most parents who are actively seeking alternatives to traditional parenting had a negative experience being parented traditionally. In other words, we have first-hand experience with a top-down approach to parenting, and it was bad.
Strangely, my parents still are trying to maintain this structure, and so I have nothing more than a polite relationship with them. This is not the kind of relationship I want with my children now or as adults, so I'm seeking another way.
I've found the work of Gordon Neufeld immensely helpful as I work out my own parenting style. He suggests that parents still need to be the children's compass point, but they need to offer unconditional love, too. Too many parents just boss kids around and say they're offering firm boundaries.
To those suggesting intervention, even the kind and gentle sort, when you see a tough parent/child situation, I would urge caution. I've been in those situations as a child and as a parent, and to me, the person intervening usually seems condescending and more interested in being self-righteous than changing the tone of the situation. True violence needs to be stopped, for sure, but we all have bad days. No one needs to be shamed. I've rarely seen these sorts of interventions end well.
http://www.gordonneufeld.com/
Lynelle--What a beautiful post. How wonderful to hear a parent truly understand her child!
Lynelle, that was indeed beautifully put. Really knowing your children is so important to being a good parent. So many parents today just do not have the time or inclination to invest in their children today.
Cherilyn, I guess I can understand why people would gravitate to this style of parenting if they have had bad experiences themselves. But you will find bad parents in any system. My own experience with my traditional parents was very reassuring because I never experienced them losing their temper and life was very predictable because their boundaries and consequences were so clear. I think children need that sense of predictability in their lives. It gives them a safe place from which to explore the world.
"It gives them a safe place from which to explore the world."
The problem with your argument is that our kids have this, without parent-imposed limits and consequences.
You've reminded me of a commonly made but nevertheless erroneous conclusion about spanking: "I was spanked and I turned out fine, therefore spanking causes people to turn out fine." It's bad logic.
Your kids may feel safe, and they may behave the way you want them to behave, and they may, like you, look back on their childhoods with warmth. But how do you know all of that is not *in spite of* your traditional parenting?
And how can you really know your way is best if you won't try another way? Many of the moms posting here started out parenting another way. What we've got now is more wonderful than we could have imagined back then.
Kids don't need to be taught that they aren't the center of the universe - its an understanding they grow into when their needs are consistently met and feelings are consistently honored. Its a human birthright to be able to see beyond one's own perspective.
Its when needs and feelings are consistently ignored or shut down that kids (and eventually adults) clamor to be the center of the universe.
Meeting needs and honoring feelings can take place without creating extra limits in life - life comes with plenty of limits! The day is only so long, we can't fly to the moon in a silver teapot, and mommies, alas, get tired and grumpy sometimes. Even in the best of situations, kids learn early on that possibilities are not endless. Its not something that needs to be taught, its perfectly obvious to any child past toddlerhood.
What we can do is offer a different reaction to limits. The real limits of life and times and places don't have to be a series of walls, but a stream of wonderful opportunities to problem solve and discover. How can we make this work for us? How can we make it better? "No" and "shush" are cop-outs. The world is amazingly bigger and more fabulous when you move beyond "no" and "shush" to "lets figure this out together".
I keep going back to the phone conversation part...
If I need a private phone conversation I will find a way to have one. If one of my children need me, the conversation comes in a clear secondary priority. That is IT for me. That child right there in front of me needs me more than any other person on the other end of a phone conversation.
Everything I do, even a phone conversation, my kids should feel safe to interrupt if they need my attention. An older kid can sometimes wait a moment, but a younger kid might not be able to at all.
In that moment, while I'm on the phone, I have choices I can make in regards to my children. The choices I make are always in the "this is better for our relationship" set of choices. Telling a child to wait, or shush, or ignoring them isn't in that set of choices that builds relationships. It tells a child, in actions and words that whatever they want is not as important as what I want and what the person I'm talking to wants.
Respect is a 2 way street, best modeled by the parents, starting when the kids are young. If I respect their needs, they grow to respect mine. A child interrupting my phone conversation NEEDS my attention, if they didn't, they wouldn't be interrupting.
I try to meet my children's needs where they are at, not where I think they should be at. Expecting a child that needs my attention, to wait to receive it, is expecting that child to be able to do so, and if they can't wait quietly and patiently, then that is clearly more about my wrong expectations than about the misbehavior of a child that isn't meeting my erroneous expectations.
Wow. Our attitudes are so different!
Ronnie, I fell for all the modern parenting rubbish as a new parent and was a textbook modern parent for the first 10 years. It was only when I sat back and looked at how badly behaved my kids had become that I did some serious soul searching and decided to return to my parents' much simpler way. I haven't looked back since.
Jenny, in regards to the phone conversation, my point of view is completely opposite to you. There is a big difference between needs and wants and most of the time, kids interrupt because of their 'wants'. Of course, if they had hurt themselves and really 'needed' me, I would drop the phone and attend to them. But a child just wanting your attention right here and right now is not being respectful of your right to have a conversation without being interrupted. A child like that is going to be perceived as rude by people outside the family, and I want my child to be liked and welcomed wherever they go.
I don't know what you mean by "modern parenting rubbish." I suspect you intended a jab at the parenting we do, but maybe you were referring to "To Train Up a Child," which was published in 1994. If so, I agree, it's rubbish, and vile to boot.
In any case, it's hard for me to judge from that what you've tried and not tried. I will just reiterate what several of us have tried to tell you: Our parenting methods--respectful, responsive, connected, cooperative, treating children as equals--result in happy kids who have no need to act out; they are getting the attention and help that they need. Sometimes they *do* get overwhelmed, as all humans do, by emotions or situations. Any behaviors they exhibit during an overwhelmed moment are not a sign that they need fixing but that they need more help.
As you recall, the original phone conversation moment that Maria described was about kids who had previously been "energetic." Whether that energy was acting out, or a sign of overwhelm, or simply normal child-ness, we can't know. But whatever it was, for their mother to then get on the phone--in a restaurant!!!--was not only rude but child abandonment.
In her shoes, I would have declined the call and gotten *more* focused on the kids, not less. That she didn't do that makes her kids' bid for her attention understandable and, frankly, predictable. It's like she set them up to have difficulties. Very sad.
Do you have any other example situations that we could speak to? That might be the best way of painting a clearer picture of what we do.
HI Ronnie,
No, my comment wasn't a jibe at your methods. I agree that the mother was rude to talk on the phone at dinner but we don't know the circumstances. I think we could debate our differing parenting styles for month without really convincing each other. I think we will have to agree to disagree. However, I will leave the debate with an open mind that it is just possible to raise good kids using your methods when parents are determined and devoted, like you lot seem to be. I hope that you will give traditional parenting the benefit of the doubt, too, and not assume that all kids being raised by TP are being victimised in some way.
I will continue to give kids the benefit of the doubt. That's the cornerstone.
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